The Mars & Venus thread

[Bruno]

OK, I will move the discussion about dating from the Wiska thread to here, to prevent any more off-topic posts.

[Bruno]

i didnt want to write here anymore so i will keep it very short. hehe you are a real women advocat... guys like you do everything for women and worship them but dont get laid, guess why?! face the reality: your narrow views are one reason why you only masturbate instead of fucking girls. of course it is easier to live with such excuses like you just aim for the hard to get women and the true love. but face it neither the easy to get ones nor the hard to get ones will let you between their legs, because you are not even a nice guy you are also an women advocat, who hates the evil men who fuck the girls and devides women into 2 categories the cheap ones who like to fuck and the holy ones who are in your opinion pure.

btw it is not cheating or hurting a girl if you never promised her something like a relationship or told her that you love her before. this is the core and huge difference, because you should never say smth like this to a women if i dont mean it that way! lies are what women hurt afterwards!

maybe a mode should create a new topic and move posts overthere: female psychology or what women really want

I am not a women's advocate, I am an advocate for a fair game with the same rules for everybody.

Have you never heard of the apple tree story?

In this story you have nice and bad guys, and they both want to eat apples. The nice guys climb in the tree very carefully so they can see the good apples, and pick the ones they like. No problem so far, and everything goes very peaceful and well, because there are enough apples for everybody. Then the bad guy comes to the place, and sees the tree. He hires a huge bull dozer and rides against the apple tree with huge force, in order to bring down as many apples as possible. So what is the result? All the apples fall on the ground, and most of them are bruised, and the nice guys lie under the apple tree. The bad guy picks up all the apples one by one, and takes the few that are still good to his home. The nice guys are wounded, they have to clean up the mess, and are left alone with a lot of bruised apples.

So, what can we learn from this story?

There are enough apples for everybody, but for the bad guy this is not enough. He wants not only as many apples as he wants, he also tries to prevent others to get some, and if there are any left, he makes sure that they are bruised. He is so egocentric and evil that he doesn't care about an individual apple, he doesn't respect the tree, he doesn't respect the other guys, and he doesn't respect the game, because he spoils the game for all others and he doesn't care, he even laughs at the others because they are so nice and careful for other people, what a waste of time he thinks! Because he wants to have everything for himself, the selfish bastard.

So why is the bad guy not behaving like the others?

Because he is unable to have empathic thoughts. He thinks empathy is something for girls. He thinks the other guys are too nice and too insecure for not hiring bull dozers too and use force. He doesn't realize that he destroys many apples, because he simply doesn't see them. He doesn't see them, because it's always others who have to clean up the mess for him after he took the few good ones that were left. Because he has no sense of responsibility in his life. Girls are just a number. He is not focused on what he can give to a girl, he is only focused on what he can get in the short term, to satisfy his own needs. An example is this:

i was not able to fuck her that evening but she gave me a good blowjob.

See? Only focused on himself! No words about what he gave to her. Probably nothing, because if he can force girls to give him a blowjob one hour after she said she doesn't want sex, he is also asshole enough to leave her like a piece of shit in the corner of the room and leave. Girls must hate him for this, but it's useless to tell him this, because he thinks when girls say "no" they mean "yes". He thinks that if they complain afterwards, it's simply because girls always complain afterwards, and we should not take it seriously. These guys screw up the game for others, they are the poison that the nice guys always have to deal with, because every girl has a history with them. He simply approaches so many girls, breaks so many hearts, make girls distrust men, because the girls can not avoid the bull dozer!

So I'm not defending women, I am defending myself and the other 99% of the nice guys by fighting the egocentric and selfish people who spoil it for others and make this world a place where people think they can get the best if they lie, use force, hurt others, wanting more than is good for them, and not letting others have even the leftovers, in other words: the true assholes!!!

And probably they are even proud of this like a king who rules the world.

[Philanderer81]

I like to think I'm a nice guy ... and then I remember all those times women called me an asshole

[Bruno]

In that case there can be two reasons:

1) You said or did something that gave them a reason to call you an asshole.
2) Amorino is right, and they always mean the opposite of what they say, so that means you should take it as a compliment and go on like this.

[Philanderer81]

It's a fine balance really. You've gotta be a bit of a dick to get a girl into you but then you've gotta know when to tone it down and turn up the charm. Unless you decide that you just want sex from the girl. However, I think the longer you behave like a dick to girls eventually you become an asshole and then you're beyond help

[Bruno]

Surely there are women who for some mysterious are interested in bad guys, there are even women who write love letters to mass murderers and rapists, but do they really want to get in contact with them? I think not. It's just that they want a bit of excitement writing these letters, creating some fantasy in their minds, just like men who play video games in which they have to kill everybody. It starts to be really worrying when they can't distinguish fantasy and reality any more, forget about their responsibility, and act conscienceless and devastating towards women like Amorino. Of course you have to take initiative and be cool and funny with girls, what's wrong with that? But this is something different from being a dick and hurt them because you think this is the best way to approach them. When somebody starts to say "girls don't know what they want because when they say no they mean yes" all alarm bells should go off for a girl, because this is one of the famous signs that this person doesn't understand girls and definitely will bring her more problems than fun. On top of that, I have never met a girl who agrees with this statement, so either 100% of them are lying or the statement is wrong, and the latter is much more believable statistically. But even more annoying is that the good guys have to repair all the damage, they have to convince the girls that the majority of men CAN be trusted and that their past experiences were just the result of a dickhead who crossed their way unfortunately. A predator who just takes the first weak female from a random group that he can fuck, in order to add a number to his trophy list.

Finally I have to say, that there are - of course - also women who act like this. They think that the nice guys are only good for being stripped off financially because they ask for all kinds of expensive presents, the well-known gold diggers. So it's not only a one way story. But they will let themselves known soon enough, and leave you when you don't concede to their greedy behaviour. So no big problem for a smart guy.

[Am0rIn0]

bruno, your model is way too simple and subjective.... so i dont know where to start...
maybe first a bit basic female psychology:

1. every women (and also men) has two minds, firstly the conscious which is logical thinking and influenced by education and social norms. secondly the unconscious (instincts) what developed over the evolution of mankind, this is the mind who is responsible to screen men for their genes, selfconfidence, strength, social status and protective abilities. a women simply will never be attracted to a men who subjective is weaker than her self by social status or behaviour. for example thats why popular rockstars fuck hundreds of women and a bum will never fuck any woman.

to be friendly is generally not a problem for the conscious of a women, but if you are too nice and do everything a women wants it means you put your status under her status and their sub conscious will notice that and make her feel that you are unattractive and not strong enough.

so of course it is not that women always mean the opposite of what the speak, it is just often a conflict between her two minds, logic and sexual feelings. for example during a date with a men who she find attractive: the logical conscious tells her "you want a relationship that is what is socially correct and you will not feel slutty if it comes to sex". but her unconscious makes her feel sexually aroused and available for the physical advances of that man. means she would tell him that she only wants a relationship, but would feel also very much pleasure if he would get physical in that situation.

2. it is true that there are women who enjoy the really bad guys who even beat them, they will allways take the victim role and complain about them, but their sub conscious find this dominant alpha male behaviour attractive like hell thats why they stay with them or came back to them always. often manipulative women with low selfesteem need that kind of dominant asshole.

3. basically a very nice guy who runs after women and worship them all the time will hardly get a good women because he always puts his status under the womens status. basically it is not even the nice guys fault, because most got taught to behave that way from childhood. than the dominant asshole can have several kind of women described above, mostly psychically fucked up or for an adventourus one night stand. but he will get a problem with self confident, educated and mental healthy women. so there is a 3rd kind of male profile charming and romantic, strong-minded, honest, patient and relaxed, unneedy, friendly and fair to people who respect him. this kind of men is most successful to seduce women.

where is the problem if a man dates a girl and they feel each other attractive and sympathic. the man knows what to do when he sees that she is aroused and advances, kisses her, she gives him tongue and in passion it ends up in bed. after a great fuck they go different ways or keep a sexual affair. men was not lying and didnt promise her relationships or love during that date, he was all honest.

and about that bad guys hurt the girls and the nice guys have to take care about the problems. see it as it is, the girls always choose. but mainly because their unconscious find their bad behaviour attractive. what is complaining afterwards is always the conscious mind who also want to present themself as victims. what else should she say? that she was wet when meeting him first time?! no of course that guy was a asshole who promised her love.... especially if you fucked a girl and she isnt able to catch you some can get very badmouthing. girls are master in social dynamics. dont only look for their words but also look for their deeds to see if it is true.

it is basically a goal conflict, the average man is programmed to spread his genes to as many women as possible, but womens are programmed to find the best man out of the crowd and get offspring from. than he must try to hold him close as protector in a relationship or if she is not able to get him find a alternative protector. this behaviour doesnt make much sense in modern societys with developed social system anymore.

from a neutral view, why should be the socially accepted goal of women be better than the goal of men? why must enjoying a great fuck with each other result in a relationship?

also in that case the world is never black and white. btw a women will rarely tell a nice man straight that she isnt attracted to him, she will always use some soft excuses, like she has no time for a meeting, need more time for realtionship, is not ready yet, just should be friends. blabla

[Bruno]

There are definitely some parts of your story which make sense, but the problem is that there are many different types of women and they don't all need the same.

First of all, it's not true that all women want a strong man with a "higher status" than themselves. I know enough examples of couples where it's the woman who decides what they will do and even forbids her boyfriend to do things he wants or needs. Probably these women are the minority, but still, there are enough of them out there, controlling their boyfriends.

Secondly, being nice does not necessarily mean submissive or insecure. You can also say "no" to a woman in a nice way, and talk with her without acting like an asshole. The problem is that a lot of men don't want to talk, because they don't like the drama that some women make when they argue about something. The subject that led to this discussion was Russian women, and especially the Russian women make A LOT of drama about even the smallest and meaningless things.

2. What you say about girls who like their boyfriend to beat them, I can not really believe that. Maybe in a BDSM game or something like that, but really no woman wants to be humiliated like this. If you think that it's typical alpha male behaviour to beat women, you're wrong. In fact it's exactly the opposite, it's weak and impotent behaviour to beat women. The men who do this usually have a problem, and this problem is that they are unable to talk with women because their girlfriend is verbally stronger and always wins the discussions. So what do they do? They start to beat her, especially if they realize that her complains are correct and they need to work on themselves, and because this means that they are weak, and they don't want to be weak, they think they can show her some strength by beating her, because they don't want to accept their own failures. This is the true reason.
The real alpha males never fight with their partners, because they know how to treat them and show them respect.
Also, women with low self esteem will never manipulate, because for this they need to have self esteem.

3. I don't really understand what you mean when you say "putting your status under a woman's status", because status is not something that you have to fight for with a partner, only with your competitors. So if you are comparing your status with the status of your girlfriend, it means that you are USING her as an object to reach bigger status among other guys, or in other words, as a number to add to your list, which gives you this status. Otherwise I can not understand why it is important to compare your status with your girlfriend's status. It's simply not important in a relationship, and even less important in a one night stand.

About the girls who "always want to present themselves as victims", it is easy to explain. They will only present themselves like that if you treat them like that. Because what you get, is what you give. If they always complain, well, it's because they have a reason to complain, not just because they are women. If you have the idea that complaining is the normal and natural behaviour of women, it means that you probably never give them what they really need. Why else would they complain? And if you think that girls who meet an attractive guy will be wet just when they meet them for the first time, you are wrong too. They are not like men, who can get an erection in a matter of minutes, they need more time. This is why they are often disappointed afterwards, because when they get excited, the bad guy who just comes to fuck her, has already left the building when she didn't even have the time to get excited. So she's not complaining because she didn't catch you, she's complaining because she expected to be treated like a woman, not as a number on a list. When you leave them, they realize this, and of course they will complain, because they are disappointed.

why must enjoying a great fuck with each other result in a relationship?

Because when it was really a great fuck for you both, you will want to have more of this and call each other again. After all, if something tastes good, why leave it and go away to search for something else? That's also what I meant when I said "quality is more important than quantity". The point is, that it was a great fuck for YOU, but probably not for her. Because girls never complain about a great fuck afterwards. If she is indeed always complaining afterwards, you don't give her what she wants. Maybe you don't care what she wants, as long as you had a great fuck. In that case, you are the typical asshole who will never learn from the signs women give (complaining). If you are not, you will learn along the way, and find out what she wants too, because if she is enjoying herself, the sex will be even better than before. But assholes and bad guys never reach this point of excellent sex, because the girls will not let them.

[Am0rIn0]

1. of course there are exceptions and different personality types. i once also met a woman who simply didnt lose many words and simply grabbed your patns and forced you to fuck her.

it depends also on how attracive a women is and what she can get, of course after several disapointments she can chose a more submissive man. also submissive man are good suppliers for them and women also enjoy to have power very much. but submissive men are in gerneral sexual less attractive to women. women in relationships with submissive men are more likely to cheat or get an affair.

the term "Nice" is indeed miss leading. what you mean i would call friendly and sociable, what is in combination with selfesteem an slight dominance very powerful. with "nice" behaviour i mean submissive behaviour, somebody who is nice only reacts to a situation but doesnt lead or control it. a "nice" man behaves submissive or passive to avoid conflicts due to his low selfesteem. an extreme example: your boss is unfair to you, you feel angry, but instead of telling your opinion and risk a conflict you get submissive and accept his words.

you are right that russian do more "drama", but drama is only a test to see if a man is dominant or submissive. women always test your reactions. if you keep cool, keep leading the situation and turn the spearhead with a good reframe you pass that test. as result she will be more attracted to that man. also doing compliments for the sake of doing one especially about looks is dangerous in the beginning can look creepy to women. if doing compliments than only if you know her well and are honestly impressed by something she did.

2. of course it is not a alpha male behaviour to beat women! it is quite a minority but sadly it is true, some women are that psychically fucked up that they need and only get emotionally attracted by really bad dominant guys.

"The men who do this usually have a problem, and this problem is that they are unable to talk with women because their girlfriend is verbally stronger and always wins the discussions."

of course, but you dont see the point. why did she choose that guy and still stay with him if he beats her? trust me, it is because she loves that emotional action, drama and loves to play the victim role afterwards. some women need this, women hate boredom at all they love emotional roller costers.

3. about status: humans are hierarchic "animals". you have "status" by institution and position but also in your social circle. even in a friendship circle you can see that there is always one who is more leading like the others. this is the "status" i mean. that whole process is for most people subconscious. every human within a group (friendship, relationship, etc) everybody has its position. lower, less, quite equal or switching. in friendship or realtionships that status difference is mostly only very small. so higher status of a man in a relationship means that he is leading and deciding more often than the women and that he has a better income and bigger social circle. but his status must be only slightly higher to be sexual attractive for women, it doesnt mean he must be the big boss. that kind of status is hard to evaluate it is more a subconscious feeling.

"If they always complain, well, it's because they have a reason to complain, not just because they are women." sometimes right and fair, but sometimes it is only "drama" to test you. often as man you will have that feeling that what ever you do, it will be wrong for her. it is simply a way of trying to control situations, women are 10 times better in social dynamics than men. they have sixth sense for it, because they need to develop it during evolution as surviving strategy, because to compensate their physical weakness compared to men.

"They are not like men, who can get an erection in a matter of minutes", you can get them wet if you push the right buttons within 30-60 minutes. just be cool, easygoing, flirt a bit, let them qualify by asking them questions, make sexual jokes. if they laughs and giggles about every stupid joke it is a sign that she is attracted to you. than it is time to escalate physical, take her hand or stroke her legs, if she doesnt dodge she is ready for a lip kiss.... this is not a matter of weeks or months, this should happen during the first date. most men are afraid to do it because they are afraid to get rejected or losing her. i also was in my early times, but now if i like a girl i simply kiss her and till now after dozens a kiss has never been refused. it is often the point where even women start to escalate by giving you tongue.

of course looks is not that much important for women. what for a man is the looks of a woman, it is the selfesteem and status (expressed by his behaviour) of man. this is what creates attraction. girls are more logical than most people think.

[Am0rIn0]

Because when it was really a great fuck for you both, you will want to have more of this and call each other again. After all, if something tastes good, why leave it and go away to search for something else? That's also what I meant when I said "quality is more important than quantity". The point is, that it was a great fuck for YOU, but probably not for her. Because girls never complain about a great fuck afterwards. If she is indeed always complaining afterwards, you don't give her what she wants. Maybe you don't care what she wants, as long as you had a great fuck. In that case, you are the typical asshole who will never learn from the signs women give (complaining). If you are not, you will learn along the way, and find out what she wants too, because if she is enjoying herself, the sex will be even better than before. But assholes and bad guys never reach this point of excellent sex, because the girls will not let them.

of course you can meet again after a good fuck and if you meet again from time to time for sex only it would be called an affair. if you than meet again regularly and do something different together than sex it is a relationship. this is how it works, you never tell a girl: "ok now we have officially a relationship, lets fuck". it is a development, first there is a fuck which can stay an ONS, or lead into an affair, who can lead into a relationship. it is up to both how far to go.

but what about having quantity and quality at the same time?!

about women and complaining read that statement above, as long you will take every lil complaint and drama of women serious you will never get really successful with them, if you want to know more about this you can search for term "shit test". and dont worry about my sex techniques, as about women or doing porn i could write a book about it! maybe i should even do that one day when i have nothing better to do.

that sex on an emotional base and trust in relationships in the beginning as long the fire burns is great of course. but i bet you never laid a women the first day you dated her, otherwise you would have a different view. but as long you didnt experienced this you have no comparison. it is great too if you know how to push the buttons!

[Bruno]

i once also met a woman who simply didnt lose many words and simply grabbed your patns and forced you to fuck her.

Usually this happens only when they are drunk or under the influence of drugs, or else they don't care about what men think of them, which is quite rare for a woman. As a DJ I come a lot in clubs and bars, and especially when closing time is coming, a lot of fun is happening. You see some guys literally checking out some girls who are drunk for a chance to have sex with them. They don't care if these girls will remember nothing the next morning or are unable to consent any more, they just act as predators for an easy prey.

why did she choose that guy and still stay with him if he beats her? trust me, it is because she loves that emotional action, drama and loves to play the victim role afterwards. some women need this, women hate boredom at all they love emotional roller costers.

Fortunately the majoirty of women are different, they don't like to be a victim and they don't like boyfriends to dominate them in that way. The reason why you think this, is probably because those are the women you attract. By saying that they love to be a victim, you actually say that it's their fault, in order to avoid your responsibility towards her. Also it's not true that she wants to stay with him, she usually leaves as soon as she can, UNLESS this guy threatens to do something terrible to her and she will be afraid to make her own choices, which is sad. So in that way, it's not always a good thing to dominate and control a girl, it's better to have some balance.

so higher status of a man in a relationship means that he is leading and deciding more often than the women and that he has a better income and bigger social circle.

Not true. There are several examples for me where the women is leading, when at the same time the man has a bigger income. So in this case, which one has the "higher status"? Some people love hierarchy and power play, but for humans it's less important compared to the animal world. It's because animals let themselves lead by their instincts, while humans can make a choice with their brains that's different than their instincts tell them. And they make these different choices, because they can think a few steps ahead, and analyse a situation, and the consequences it might bring in the future. This is why some people commit suicide, when their instinct tells them to keep on living. Most animals can not make these choices.

often as man you will have that feeling that what ever you do, it will be wrong for her. it is simply a way of trying to control situations, women are 10 times better in social dynamics than men. they have sixth sense for it, because they need to develop it during evolution as surviving strategy, because to compensate their physical weakness compared to men.

So if you have the feeling that whatever you do will be wrong, your first reaction is that it must be her strategy to control you? That means that instead of talking with her and trying to understand, you will probably ignore her complaints and say always that it's all her fault because she is a woman. It seems more and more to me, that you see women as evil creatures who are trying to control and manipulate men, instead of them being equal partners. No wonder why they always leave, and you don't care about their feelings. Behaving like a player and trying to have sex with every girl on the first date is the reason for this, because men who like to play games and manipulate also attract girls that like to do the same. People who have equal characters usually feel more attracted to each other.

if they laughs and giggles about every stupid joke it is a sign that she is attracted to you.

If they laugh at every stupid joke it means that they are just being friendly but actually they think how the hell so many brainless players come up with the same stupid jokes over and over again. And if they REALLY think it's funny if they hear this stupid joke for the 14th time on one evening, they are probably not intelligent enough to realize that it's just a trick to get them in bed. A good sign to move on and find a smart girl instead.

this is not a matter of weeks or months, this should happen during the first date.

This almost sounds like an obligation, and this is also one of the biggest mistakes that men make.They think that if they don't have sex with a girl on the first night, every chance of having sex with her later will be gone. But actually investigations show the opposite, namely that the sex becomes even better if you wait some longer. In other words, the quick and fast sex with just a stranger is also the worst sex, because these people don't want to take time to know each other better, they just want an easy fuck because they don't know the benefits of investing time and efforts.

now if i like a girl i simply kiss her and till now after dozens a kiss has never been refused.

Then you have a good eye to see if she will like you, or at least you can see if she's drunk enough not to care about it any more. Maybe you want to suggest that you could get any women you want because you are such a good player, but you forget that the smart and selective ladies will not let you come close in the first place. There are a lot of women who hate players, and even some of them become very wary about all men in general, because this behaviour makes them distrust them and their true intentions. They had enough bad experiences with player behaviour and the fact that most of them just dump a girl to go on with the next, that they think all men are like this. Sad but true.

[Bruno]

first there is a fuck which can stay an ONS, or lead into an affair, who can lead into a relationship. it is up to both how far to go.

One night affairs rarely lead to a relationship, these are just exceptions. Players always think that sex is the start of every relationship, but it's not. That's why they push the girls to do things that they are not ready for, and which she will regret later. Then she will complain, and breaks any contact. Players usually meet a lot of girls like this, but they are also unable to create a relationship, simply because they have a distorted view about women and their needs.

but what about having quantity and quality at the same time?!

It's not possible, because the quality women go to different places, meet different men, have different needs, and recognize player behaviour very soon because of their stupid jokes.

if you want to know more about this you can search for term "shit test".

Hahaha! Now I finally understand where you have all your strange views from. Are you serious? Do you really believe in this non-sense?
Sometimes these kind of websites pop up on my screen along with the ones about penis enlargements and "making-800-dollars-in-15-minutes"! Do you also believe in those things?
And how much did you pay for these misleading books and DVD's about "how-to-become-a-successfull-casanova-and-sex-magnet???

It's simple for me - every women has different needs and preferences, and you can not write some easy book or create "rules" to conquer them. You only will learn about what they want if you talk with them personally, not to learn some standard rules from a book or a advertising website whose first goal is to earn money from you. If you really believe in these standard rules, you will also attract standard and average women, not the ones that stand out and have that something special. And it's the same with men, because not all of them like to drive fast cars, watch football, and have a preference for DD-cup boobs. In fact I'm not interested in ANY of these things.
So does this make me "less man" if I don't meet the criteria that most people have of "typical male behaviour"? I don't think so. I prefer to make my own choices, and don't let myself lead by some stupid public opinion. Of course this leads to situations where people don't understand why I react differently than men who only follow their instinct due to group pressure, but this is a deliberate choice I made and which shapes my personality.

and dont worry about my sex techniques, as about women or doing porn i could write a book about it! maybe i should even do that one day when i have nothing better to do.

Well, nothing is stopping you from writing books about how great and fantastic you are with women, but I'm sure that most men are not interested at all to read it, so you will write it only for yourself.
And even if there are some desperate men who want to read your advices, 99% of the women hate guys who want to tell how great and fantastic they are. They appreciate modesty and self-knowledge much more than some overconfident asshole who likes to create himself a statue and can only talk about how great he is. On the opposite, they utterly hate such behaviour, and it's almost impossible to have success with women with such an attitude.

otherwise you would have a different view.

I have my views because I know what I like and what I want, and because I use my brain before I make my choices. It's true that with this attitude I attract totally different girls as you, but if I would behave like you, which is going for quantity and approach every possible girl and not caring about asshole behaviour towards girls, I would feel very uncomfortable because I have some sense of responsibility towards these girls. So I'm very happy that I'm not some kind of self-overrated player who always blames others and breaks girls' hearts on a daily basis. Thank you very much!

[Am0rIn0]

why did she choose that guy and still stay with him if he beats her? trust me, it is because she loves that emotional action, drama and loves to play the victim role afterwards. some women need this, women hate boredom at all they love emotional roller costers.

Fortunately the majoirty of women are different, they don't like to be a victim and they don't like boyfriends to dominate them in that way. The reason why you think this, is probably because those are the women you attract. By saying that they love to be a victim, you actually say that it's their fault, in order to avoid your responsibility towards her. Also it's not true that she wants to stay with him, she usually leaves as soon as she can, UNLESS this guy threatens to do something terrible to her and she will be afraid to make her own choices, which is sad. So in that way, it's not always a good thing to dominate and control a girl, it's better to have some balance.

luckily i never got to know kind of that girl. but i read it in a book and it makes logical sense. you make it far too easy for yourself by saying bad guys and poor girls all the time. as told before it is minority of women. i am a friendly guy, hard to get but friendly, straight and honest, otherwise i wouldnt do this debate with you.

so higher status of a man in a relationship means that he is leading and deciding more often than the women and that he has a better income and bigger social circle.

Not true. There are several examples for me where the women is leading, when at the same time the man has a bigger income. So in this case, which one has the "higher status"? Some people love hierarchy and power play, but for humans it's less important compared to the animal world. It's because animals let themselves lead by their instincts, while humans can make a choice with their brains that's different than their instincts tell them. And they make these different choices, because they can think a few steps ahead, and analyse a situation, and the consequences it might bring in the future. This is why some people commit suicide, when their instinct tells them to keep on living. Most animals can not make these choices.

of course true! humankind (sadly) is full of powerplay where ever you look, during almost every interaction, sometimes more sometimes less, maybe you just havent developed a sence for it. of course there are lots of realtionships especially long term ones where women wear the trousers. because they must dominate the man to have maximum security. only a submissive man will stay with her in an advanced age for sure.

often as man you will have that feeling that what ever you do, it will be wrong for her. it is simply a way of trying to control situations, women are 10 times better in social dynamics than men. they have sixth sense for it, because they need to develop it during evolution as surviving strategy, because to compensate their physical weakness compared to men.

So if you have the feeling that whatever you do will be wrong, your first reaction is that it must be her strategy to control you? That means that instead of talking with her and trying to understand, you will probably ignore her complaints and say always that it's all her fault because she is a woman. It seems more and more to me, that you see women as evil creatures who are trying to control and manipulate men, instead of them being equal partners. No wonder why they always leave, and you don't care about their feelings. Behaving like a player and trying to have sex with every girl on the first date is the reason for this, because men who like to play games and manipulate also attract girls that like to do the same. People who have equal characters usually feel more attracted to each other.

it is not a feeling it is a proven fact, written theoretical in many books and proved by my life experience. they are not evil, women are genius, far underestimated by most guys and much stronger than most men, i love them. guys like you are the living prove that their strategy works well.

so it is not right to meet a girl to fuck her sooner or later? man where do you live why do you date a women than? only to talk with them? why you dont date men or ugly women in that case. you fool yourself.

if they laughs and giggles about every stupid joke it is a sign that she is attracted to you.

If they laugh at every stupid joke it means that they are just being friendly but actually they think how the hell so many brainless players come up with the same stupid jokes over and over again. And if they REALLY think it's funny if they hear this stupid joke for the 14th time on one evening, they are probably not intelligent enough to realize that it's just a trick to get them in bed. A good sign to move on and find a smart girl instead.

bruno bruno you really dont notice the signs women give you when attracted during a date?! you must learn a lot.

this is not a matter of weeks or months, this should happen during the first date.

This almost sounds like an obligation, and this is also one of the biggest mistakes that men make.They think that if they don't have sex with a girl on the first night, every chance of having sex with her later will be gone. But actually investigations show the opposite, namely that the sex becomes even better if you wait some longer. In other words, the quick and fast sex with just a stranger is also the worst sex, because these people don't want to take time to know each other better, they just want an easy fuck because they don't know the benefits of investing time and efforts.

wrong you can also take her at the 2nd date, but should lay her latest on the 3rd one, otherwise she will think you have no nuts and risk to become a friend only. if you cant have a great fuck with a girl you just met you are not able to attract her enough or didnt take her dominant enough.

now if i like a girl i simply kiss her and till now after dozens a kiss has never been refused.

Then you have a good eye to see if she will like you, or at least you can see if she's drunk enough not to care about it any more. Maybe you want to suggest that you could get any women you want because you are such a good player, but you forget that the smart and selective ladies will not let you come close in the first place. There are a lot of women who hate players, and even some of them become very wary about all men in general, because this behaviour makes them distrust them and their true intentions. They had enough bad experiences with player behaviour and the fact that most of them just dump a girl to go on with the next, that they think all men are like this. Sad but true.

how old are you? i bet below 25. trust me with enough experience women will be like an open book. i love girls with university degrees and students, they are mostly clever and great to talk with (because i have a masters degree too) and easy to lay because they are bored of all they "nice" guys without nuts around them and love to met a man who knows how to seduce them. face the truth it is hard in the beginning but will help you in the long run. 5 years ago i had the same mindset like you... many female friends who complaint about the bad guys (who fucked them) but rarely sex. today it is opposite, some maybe complain about me but at least i fuck them.

[Bruno]

luckily i never got to know kind of that girl. but i read it in a book and it makes logical sense.

That's the core of your problem. Everything you know about girls is coming from books and websites, not from talking with them, and you believe it without thinking twice. It's not only that you don't understand women, you also don't WANT to understand them because you prefer to create your own "truth" of a world full of manipulating bitches who don't deserve any attention and who need to be treated dominantly. This only confirms your disrespect towards women. Like I already said earlier, "you get what you give", so this will all eventually come back at you. In other words, these women are manipulating you because you are manipulating them.

you make it far too easy for yourself by saying bad guys and poor girls all the time.

It's because I reply to your views, and your views are that you need to be a bad guy who is dominant and sometimes even unpleasant towards girls. The result is that the girls who are not strong enough to walk away from this anti-social behaviour become submissive or afraid, and yes, sometimes even victims of guys like you, because they don't get the love that they need. Most girls, deep in their hearts, don't prefer to have one night stands, but they hope for something more afterwards. This is why they complain afterwards, because they are disappointed. So if you say that they are all sex maniacs and they only complain because they like the emotions and drama so much, it's an easy excuse, because they never make drama just for the sake of it, but for a certain reason. You say that the reason is manipulation and testing you, but in that case, why don't they make drama and complain BEFORE you have sex with them? It's very illogical that they want to test you after you dumped them. So the only other reason can be, that they feel abused because it was not what they expected.

guys like you are the living prove that their strategy works well.

Because?

so it is not right to meet a girl to fuck her sooner or later?

That's not what I said. You are even trying to manipulate me also, by changing my words, you see?
And the sad thing is that all these girls, who complain after you had sex with them, will tell their girlfriends how you treated them, and finally you will be known as the player who don't give a f#ck about a woman's feelings, so each new day you will have to start to search for new victims.

If they laugh at every stupid joke it means that they are just being friendly but actually they think how the hell so many brainless players come up with the same stupid jokes over and over again. And if they REALLY think it's funny if they hear this stupid joke for the 14th time on one evening, they are probably not intelligent enough to realize that it's just a trick to get them in bed. A good sign to move on and find a smart girl instead.

bruno bruno you really dont notice the signs women give you when attracted during a date?! you must learn a lot.

We were talking about making stupid jokes. And of course, if I don't make any stupid jokes, girls don't have to feel obliged to laugh about them in an artificial way to pretend that they like them. The only reason for a guy to make a stupid joke is that he hasn't anything more interesting to tell to her, and a girl will immediately notice this. Probably you will think now: "But it's impossible to come up with a clever and thoughtful joke every time I meet a girl". Then you are right indeed, but you have to remind that girls also know this, so the sillier and easier your stupid jokes are, the more likely it is that they are dealing with an easy player, somebody who tells the same stupid joke to all the girls until some of them bites, and who has no interest at all to know them better personally. Smart girls will not bite, because they know better, but of course in every club there are a bunch of easy young victims who feel flattered because of the attention, but for who it's usually too late when they realize that this guy is not interested at all in giving them what they are looking for.

she will think you have no nuts and risk to become a friend only. if you cant have a great fuck with a girl you just met you are not able to attract her enough or didnt take her dominant enough.

The "risk" to become a friend. Oh, how horrible would that be.

Didn't "take her dominant enough". So like a silverback you like to "take" women, like a banana from the tree.

These quotes again show your disrespect and that you have no interest at all to learn what a woman wants. Why is it a "risk" to become a friend? Are you afraid of friendships? You see, women also have a personality, and they need friendships. Men like you think, that friendships with women are impossible, because they don't understand women. This is why they always feel manipulated, that their negative behaviour is the result of a global female conspiracy towards men. They are the living proof that they are unable to please women, to give them what they want. They are only focused on themselves, like egocentric bitches. If they can't reach their ultimate goal (=fucking her) they think it's because they didn't "take her dominant enough" (=your words, not mine). So what happens? They become more dominant next time, because they think this will make the girls feel more attracted to them. A sign of weakness and I am a spammer of course, because they refuse to admit, that these women make their own choices, and if they like somebody or not. That they also have preferences in men, and that most of them don't like typical dominant and demanding behaviour at all. They don't let themselves be "taken", they want to decide for themselves who they have sex with, and right they are!

how old are you? i bet below 25.

Much older and wiser then you obviously.

i love girls with university degrees and students, they are mostly clever and great to talk with (because i have a masters degree too)

Please! Don't overplay your cards now! The amount of spelling mistakes in your posts are a big sign that you are lying, because there are too many of them to justify a master's degree.
But I must praise your degree in smooth talks and manipulation, because these are great skills to allure insecure girls who are not able to withstand your words, sadly.

some maybe complain about me but at least i fuck them.

Well, this is the core of the discussion of course, that your ultimate goal is to fuck girls like numbers. The words "at least" also show, that all the rest can be made irrelevant to that in your life.
For me it's also important to have interaction with a woman, because I like to see that she enjoys herself, which also strengthens the chemistry.
Of course you can decide that you don't need any of this crap because it's not "masculine enough", but the problem is that the girls deserve better than that.
They deserve true attention from a man without hidden motives, because this is better for both of them, and it will prevent a lot of troubles and incomprehension afterwards.

5 years ago i had the same mindset like you...

I can hardly believe it, because for this you need to understand women, and obviously you don't, because you simply don't care. If you changed your view now and became a heartless pimp, it means that five years ago you were jealous, and this is also why you decided to change into an arrogant jerk, so you didn't have the same mindset as me. I'm not jealous, because jealousy means that secretly I want to behave like an asshole too. This is not the case, because for this I need to eliminate my common sense and intellect and turn into a brainless ape, which I hope will never happen because it would be a nightmare having to degrade myself in order to be a disrespectful, obnoxious, self-centered scumbag like that!

from a neutral view, why should be the socially accepted goal of women be better than the goal of men?

The mistake you make over and over again, is that you truly seem to believe, that the goal of most men is to (ab)use women for your own pleasure, and then ignore and ridicule any sound coming from their mouths. You see them as objects, as instruments, as lower forms of life that you can use as fuckholes, and on the other side you think all men should behave like apes, only following their bestial instincts by fucking as many different girls as possible in their lives, or otherwise they don't get what they are created for on this earth. Wake up from this foolish dream! It's not a neutral view at all, but an extremely subjective and radically absurdic view, which ignores all common sense, empathy, and emotions that 99% of the people have. That some people like you never developed this, or at least chose to become a rude jerk and above all that feel proud of it, is the exception to the rule, believe me.

[robot]

i think we should rename this thread "UFC - bruno vs amorino, 55 rounds, 45mn per round, are you ready to rrrrumble!?"

now seriously guys, i think noone but you two is reading this. Can you guys exchange phone numbers, sort it out over bowling, beer, hotdog, whatever?
if i had to guess, i'd say that you guys are very similar in personality, you just dont see it